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Interview with Dr. Sadhu Binning

https://search.heritageburnaby.ca/link/museumdescription19348

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Date: [1931-2022] (interview content), interviewed 25 Nov. 2022

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 3 sound recordings (wav) (75 min., 56 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (75 min., 57 sec.)

Scope and Content: Item consists of an oral history interview with Dr. Sadhu Binning conducted by Anushay Malik with assistance from Burnaby Village Museum Assistant Curator, Kate Petrusa. The interview opens with introductions and how the content of the interview can be drawn on by Burnaby Village Museum for future …

1 document 1 audio

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Series: Museum Oral Histories series

Subseries: South Asian Canadian Interviews subseries

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 3 sound recordings (wav) (75 min., 56 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (75 min., 57 sec.)

Material Details: Interviewer: Anushay Malik Co Interviewer and technical support: Kate Petrusa Interviewee: Dr. Sadhu Binning Location of Interview: Love farmhouse at Burnaby Village Museum Interview Date: November 25, 2022 Total Number of tracks: 3 Total Length of all Tracks: (1:15:57) Digital master recordings (wav) were recorded onto three separate audio tracks, edited and merged together and converted to mp3 for access on Heritage Burnaby

Scope and Content: Item consists of an oral history interview with Dr. Sadhu Binning conducted by Anushay Malik with assistance from Burnaby Village Museum Assistant Curator, Kate Petrusa. The interview opens with introductions and how the content of the interview can be drawn on by Burnaby Village Museum for future exhibits and for researchers to learn more about the history of the South Asian community in Burnaby. During the interview, Dr. Binning shares his ancestral background along with his relatives' and his own personal experiences as a South Asian immigrant living and working in British Columbia and Burnaby. Dr. Binning conveys that he’s a Burnaby resident who’s lived in Burnaby since 1973 and that his children were born here. Binning shares his ancestral heritage beginning with his uncle Dhana Singh who emigrated from Punjab to British Columbia in 1931 and began working in the forest industry. He explains how Dhana Singh and another partner owned, operated and worked in small sawmills in the vicinity of Kamloops, Williams Lake and also on Vancouver Island. Binning conveys that in the beginning Dhana Singh and many other South Asian immigrants were not legal residents until 1938. In 1938, about 350 South Asian immigrants (mainly Punjabi) gathered resources to hire a lawyer to obtain permanent residency. Binning mentions that one of the notable South Asians in the group who was also a close friend of his uncle, was Darshan Singh Sangha, a trade unionist who was a founding member of the International Woodworkers of America (IWA) union and an active member of the Communist Party of Canada. Binning conveys how Darshan Singh Sangha returned to India in 1947 to be a part of the revolution, how he was very active in the communist movement in India. While in India, Darshan Singh Sangha, was known as Canadian and thereby adopted “Canadian” as his surname, becoming “Darshan Singh Canadian”. Binning further explains that his uncle Dhana Singh Sangha returned to India in 1951, married and came back to B.C. in 1957 bringing with him, his wife and children. In 1960, with the support of his uncle, Binning’s father, Jit Singh Binning immigrated to British Columbia and began working in sawmills in the lower mainland, Kamloops, Quesnel and on Vancouver Island. Binning clarifies that his uncle, Dhana Singh was able to immigrate to Canada with the support of his cousins from the Tarker Singh Bains family. Binning further describes Darshan Singh Sangha’s involvement with the Communist party and the IWA and how the majority of the members were from the forest industry. As an active and prominent member of the labour movement, Darshan Singh Sangha fought for the rights of South Asians and Chinese who working in the industry and facing racism, unfair wages and discriminatory practices. Binning describes how Darshan Singh Sangha wrote a book in English in 1943, titled “Rise of the New Asia”. Binning conveys how immigrants of Chinese and South Asian decent didn’t have the right to vote in British Columbia and how Darshan Singh Sangha was instrumental in obtaining the right to vote in British Columbia, although he was never given the credit. Binning describes his uncle Dhana Singh as a likeable guy with many friends, first living in Kamloops before moving to Vancouver. Binning imparts how the sport of wrestling is a popular Punjabi sport along with Punjabi kabaddi. He conveys that his uncle became involved in wrestling while working in sawmills. South Asian immigrants had to do physical labour working in sawmills, the work could be tough and could often lead to physical fights. A number of South Asian immigrants working in the mills already had experience as wrestlers from back home. Dhana Singh later left the lumber industry to work in the agriculture sector. Binning explains how immigration rules changed in the 1960s which lead to larger numbers of South Asians immigrating to Canada. Many of these new immigrants were educated and politically conscious. All of these new immigrants faced racism but being politically conscious from an independent India and with the ability to speak English they organized themselves to fight for their rights. Binning imagines the items that his uncle and his father may have brought with them in their suitcase when immigrating to Canada. Binning describes three items, including a rajai (a blanket with cotton inside that is sewn together), a bistra (small attaché case or trunk) and a piece of cloth to lie on. Binning further describes the roles in Indian society as caste divisions and that it was usually women’s work in making the rajais. Binning recollects the locations that his father and his family lived after coming to Vancouver. Binning explains that a few years after living together in Vancouver, he and his family moved to Burnaby in 1973 to be closer to his Dr. Binning’s wife, Jagdish Binning’s family. Dr. Binning and family lived in a house in Burnaby located on Irmin Street near Royal Oak between 1973 and 1987. While living at this house their children attended McPherson Park Junior High School and later Burnaby South Secondary School. Binning reflects on some of the racism that he and his family have faced while living in Burnaby which led him to write a poem that he published in 1994 titled “No More Watno Dur”. Binning explains the meaning of the title “Watan” meaning “country and everybody” “a country far way from the motherland”. Binning explains the origins of the magazine “Watan” that was started by a friend in 1973. The magazine got its roots in Vancouver in 1973 from an organization called the “Punjabi Literary Association”. Binning became the editor of the magazine in 1976 and his friend joined him as assistant editor in 1978. Binning continued to work as editor until 1983 or 1984 when he returned to school to complete his Bachelor’s degree and Master’s degree. Binning describes the origins of the “Vancouver Sath” that was formed by a small group of South Asians around 1982. Binning was a founding member of the organization and held meetings and rehearsals at his house in Burnaby. Vancouver Sath first started out as an informal discussion forum by a group of politically conscious Punjabi writers and activists. Binning talks about issues and problems that Vancouver Sath addressed including; racism as well as domestic violence in the South Asian community. Binning explains how he and Sukhwant Hundal wrote articles on these issues and others that were happening in the South Asian community in Canada. Binning talks about how in 1983, the group was inspired to begin performing theatrical works after consulting with Gursharan Singh who was from a well known theatrical group from Punjab who were performing in Vancouver. In the beginning the Vancouver Sath’s plays were focused on the problems in Punjab but they soon decided to address social issues in their own South Asian community here in Canada. Binning summarizes and draws attention to, some of the plays that Vancouver Sath has written and performed including; “Picket Line”, about Punjabi women farmworkers’ rights; “Lattan de Bhoot”, about domestic abuse; “A Crop of Poison”; “Kihda Viah” (English translation- “Whose Marriage”) about arranged marriage and others about social issues in the South Asian community. The plays were performed in public schools and community centres in Vancouver and Richmond, Simon Fraser University and some were also performed in Toronto, Calgary and Williams Lake. Binning mentions some of the traditional foods that he likes to eat and where he and his family have shopped to find ingredients. He recalls how his mother, Gurmaje Kaur Binning did all of the cooking and was often cooking all day long. In the sixties, the Binning family address on 13th Avenue in Vancouver was also used as a postal address for many friends and family who’d recently immigrated. When these friends dropped by to pick up their mail, his mother often provided them with tea and food. After Binning and his wife, Jagdish moved to their own home in 1973, he shared in some of the shopping and cooking but his wife did the majority of the work due to his busy schedule. The interview closes with Binning providing an explanation of how “Watno Dur” magazine changed it’s name to “Watan” magazine. Binning reflects on how this came to be, when he made the decision to get an education in Canada and to stay here, not just as a “Canadian” but as a “Punjabi Canadian.

History: Interviewee biography: Dr. Sadhu Binning was born on May 10, 1947 to mother Gurmej Kaur and father Jeet Singh Binning. Due to lack of proper records management in India at the time of his birth, it is believed that he was actually born sometime in December of 1947. He grew up alongside two brothers and one sister in a village located in Kapurthala, Punjab. Dr. Binning attended secondary school in the nearby city of Phagwara, Punjab although he did not complete his education here. Throughout his childhood, he enjoyed reading both Punjabi and Hindi novels and learned how to read Urdu as well. Dr. Binning’s uncle, Dhana Singh immigrated to Canada in 1933 and returned to India in 1953. When Dhana Singh returned to Canada in 1957, he sponsored Dr. Binning’s father, Jeet Singh Binning to immigrate. Dhana Singh co-owned a few saw mills in British Columbia and also worked in the truck driving industry. Dr. Binning remembers that some people who had lived in Canada would visit their village and that they appeared to be strong and healthy and looked happy. He also noticed that they would eat meat, so whenever they would visit there would be meat available. In 1967, when he was nineteen and a half years old, Dr. Binning immigrated Canada to join his father. He recalls his father and uncle and a friend arriving at the airport to pick him up. During his first few days, Dr. Binning made the decision to remove his turban and beard upon receiving advice from his uncle. Dr. Binning first obtained work on a farm in Abbotsford, working alongside his mother. While working, Dr. Binning also attended English classes in Vancouver. Dr. Binning’s Uncle Dhana Singh worked in a Vancouver saw mill and tried to help find work for his nephew but was unsuccessful. Dr. Binning soon found work at a saw mill in Avola and worked there until the end of the summer until a friend helped find him work in a saw mill in North Vancouver. During his free time, he enjoyed camping with friends. In 1970, Dr. Binning left the saw mill after obtaining a job at the post office. The post office offered lower wages than working at the mill but Dr. Binning believed that he would become more educated working here. While working as a postman, Dr. Binning recalls facing a lot of discrimination and racism and was often referred to as a ‘Paki’ multiple times a day. In 1973, Dr. Binning married Jagish Sihota. Sadhu and Jagdish originated from nearby villages in India and met each other in Canada. Dr. Binning’s wife, Jagdish worked at the Royal Bank of Canada for thirty years until her retirement. While working, she also looked after the household and their son and daughter. Jagdish also handwrote a magazine, “Watno Dur’ (English translation: ‘away from homeland’) which was distributed in the community. In 1976, Dr. Binning became the editor of the magazine and the name was later changed to “Watan’ as they had accepted their new homeland of Canada. While working at the post office, Dr. Binning also attended night school starting in eighth grade. After receiving his high school diploma, he was accepted to Simon Fraser University and earned a Bachelor of Arts degree with a double major in Anthropology and Sociology and in 1986 he obtained a Masters degree from Simon Fraser University. While attending university, Dr. Binning was very active within the community and wanted to work to improve society. He first thought that he would return to India to contribute and improve rights in his homeland but upon seeing the prevalence of the movements in Canada, he realized that work needed to be done here too. In 1983, Dr. Binning became a founding member and contributor to a theatrical collective known as “Vancouver Sath”. The theatrical group produced plays that represented societal issues and were invited to perform at multiple conferences throughout British Columbia and Canada. The group focused and acknowledged the many issues in Punjab and in Canada. One of the plays that the group produced focused on the exploitation of Punjabi women who worked on farms in Canada. Dr. Binning continued to be involved as an integral member of Vancouver Sath until 1995. Over the years, Dr. Binning has strongly lobbied for Punjabi language education and between 1988 and 2008 he worked as Punjabi instructor at the University of British Columbia. He first worked as a teaching assistant at UBC under Dr. Harjot Oberoi and due to low wages, he simultaneously worked at the Post Office. In 2019, Dr. Binning received an Honorary Doctor of Letters from UBC in recognition of his work. Since 1973, Dr. Binning has lived in Burnaby and has resided in the same home that he and his wife Jagdish purchased in 1987. In his free time, he enjoys cycling, watercolour painting, travelling abroad and going on road trips. Interviewer biography: Anushay Malik is labor historian with a geographical focus on South Asia. Anushay studied at the University of London and was a research fellow at the International Institute of Social History in Amsterdam, Netherlands. In 2014, Anushay moved back to her native Pakistan and joined Lahore University of Management Services as an Assistant Professor. In 2023, Anushay is a visiting scholar at Simon Fraser University and lives in Burnaby with her family. Anushay was a co-curator of the Burnaby Village Museum exhibit “Truths Not Often Told: Being South Asian in Burnaby”.

Creator: Burnaby Village Museum

Subjects: Industries - Logging/lumber; Industries - Forestry; Foods; Migration; Organizations - Societies and Clubs; Organizations - Unions; Persons - South Asian Canadians; Performances; Performances - Dramatic Performances; Social Issues; Social Issues - Racism

Names: Binning, Dr. Sadhu; Binning, Gurmaje Kaur; Binning, Jit Singh; Binning, Jagdish; Sangha, Darshan Singh; Canadian Farmworkers Union; Hundal, Sukhwant; Sangra, Harjinder; Singh, Dhana; Vancouver Sath

Responsibility: Petrusa, Kate; Malik, Anushay

Accession Code: BV022.29.3

Access Restriction: No restrictions

Reproduction Restriction: No known restrictions

Date: [1931-2022] (interview content), interviewed 25 Nov. 2022

Media Type: Sound Recording

Notes: Title based on contents of item; Transcription available on Heritage Burnaby

Documents

2022_0029_0003_005

Audio Tracks

Interview with Dr. Sadhu Binning, [1931-2022] (interview content), interviewed 25 Nov. 2022

https://search.heritageburnaby.ca/media/hpo/_Data/_BVM_Sound_Recordings/Oral_Histories/2022_0029_0003_004.mp3

Interview with Kalwant Singh "Nadeem" Parmar

https://search.heritageburnaby.ca/link/museumdescription19346

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Date: [1600-2022] (interview content), interviewed 7 Oct. 2022

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 2 sound recordings (wav) (111 min., 51 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (111 min., 51 sec.)

Scope and Content: Item consists of a recording of an oral history interview with Kalwant Singh "Nadeem" Parmar conducted by interviewers, Anushay Malik and Rajdeep with assistance from Burnaby Village Museum Assistant Curator, Kate Petrusa. During the interview Kalwant Singh "Nadeem" Parmar discusses and provides in…

1 audio

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Series: Museum Oral Histories series

Subseries: South Asian Canadian Interviews subseries

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 2 sound recordings (wav) (111 min., 51 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (111 min., 51 sec.)

Material Details: Interviewers: Anushay Malik, Rajdeep Co Interviewer and technical support: Kate Petrusa Interviewee: Nadeem Parmar Location of Interview: Residence of Nadeem Parmar in Burnaby Interview Date: October 7, 2022 Total Number of tracks: 2 Total Length of all Tracks: 01:51:51 min Digital master recordings (wav) were recorded onto two separate audio tracks, edited and merged together and converted to mp3 for access on Heritage Burnaby

Scope and Content: Item consists of a recording of an oral history interview with Kalwant Singh "Nadeem" Parmar conducted by interviewers, Anushay Malik and Rajdeep with assistance from Burnaby Village Museum Assistant Curator, Kate Petrusa. During the interview Kalwant Singh "Nadeem" Parmar discusses and provides information on; his ancestral background, his education, his employment background, his experiences of racial discrimmination as a South Asian immigrant, saw mills established by South Asian relations in Paldi (Vancouver Island), in North Vancouver and Burnaby, family relations in the South Asian Canadian community and in regions in Punjab, the caste system, his literary works, locations of family homes in Burnaby, the architectural design of his house, personal stories and anecdotal information as a South Asian Canadian living and working in Canada. 00:00 – 01:45 The framework and purpose of the interview is explained to interviewee Nadeem Parmar by interviewers Rajdeep and Anushay Malik. The interviewers explain how the information from this interview can be drawn on for Burnaby Village Museum’s future exhibits and also how researchers will learn more about the history of the South Asian community in Burnaby through residents’ stories. Interview begins with Nadeem providing his full name "Kulwant Singh Parmar". He clarifies that his name was given to him by his grandfather who was a civil engineer and that his father also worked as a civil engineer. Nadeem expresses that he was born with a “silver spoon in his mouth” as a descendent of his maternal grandfather who was a successful landlord. Nadeem explains that when the Partition of India came into effect, (1947) he was 11 years old. He and his family left the partitioned side, his native village was located in Punjab and his forefathers were located in Rajasthan. 3:20 – 4:57 Nadeem explains further about his forefathers who came from Rajasthan. He shares information about his ancestor on his father’s side, named Vijay Singh who was friends with Emperor Jahangir. When fighting began against Jahangir he left the area to head to the middle of central India, then to the Punjab area with small states. As a clan, as a Parmar, he conveys there were about eleven or twelve villages with the same name. Interviewer, Anushay helps Nadeem to clarify the time period of this information. Nadeem refers to the time period being similar to the epic historical film “Moghal-e-Azam” and Anushay confirms the time period being the 1600s when they left Rajasthan. 4:58 – 10:59 Interviewer Anushay asks Nadeem to about his migration to Canada. Nadeem conveys that his first ancestor on his in-laws side of the family migrated around 1889. Further discussion ensues about reading Punjabi and how interviewer Rajdeep can read Punjabi and that she comes from the village of "Lakhpur" in Punjab. Rajdeep notes that “Lakhpur” is near "Phagwara". Nadeem clarifies that his village is "Panchat" and this family used to live in "Phagwara". and Nadeem and Rajdeep compare their familiarity and memories of the area. Nadeem conveys some of his comments in Punjabi and then changes to English. Nadeem recollects when the Japanese bombarded Shillong, he was around seven years old and attended missionary school. The only languages that were taught were English and Persian. Nadeem conveys that his mother had hopes of Nadeem becoming an army officer and moving up the ranks but Nadeem wasn’t interested. Nadeem attended college, graduated with a Bachelor of Science, BSC with Physics and Chemistry, followed by another Bachelor’s Degree in Political Science and finally a degree in his favourite subject in the language of Urdu. He completed these degrees in Punjab in Doaba College, Jalandher. Nadeem recollects how he started teaching but wasn’t getting paid very well. When he was at college, with encouragement from his professor, Veer Pankalia [sic] he began writing poetry and short plays. His professor also introduced him to a famous poet of Punjab, Mila Ram Offa [sic] and he gave him the name of Nadeem. Nadeem explains the meaning of the name “Nadeem” “…the one who know about it, inside out…” even though we generally think of the meaning being “friend” it’s not just about friend. 11:00 -24:48 Nadeem provides background information on how he ended up marrying his future wife who was born in India and immigrated to Canada with her family. Nadeem explains how the marriage was arranged through family relations that were already established in Punjab over a century ago. One of his wife’s ancestors, head of the family called “baniye” (traders) immigrated to Canada in [1899]. This relation returned to Punjab where he had nephews, the youngest of the nephews was Nadeem’s father (Lashman Singh Manhas) in law’s father (Sher Singh Manhas). He expresses that his wife’s ancestor couldn’t bring Nadeem’s father in law’s father since he was only 12 or 13 years old but he brought three of the nephews back to Canada with him. The nephews were named, Pola Singh, Ginaya Singh and Doman Singh (also named Dolmans). He describes how the group left India but it took them two to three years before they arrived in Canada. The group travelled to Burma, Indonesia and Hong Kong before landing in San Francisco. From San Francisco they walked and worked on the rail line before entering Canada and arriving in Grand Forks. The men got work on the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR) and eventually made their way to the lower mainland. Nadeem conveys that the younger brother of Ginaya Singh, Maya Singh joined the others in Canada taking the same route, arriving in Bridal Falls where they were working at a saw mill and in CP rail construction. He describes Maya Singh as business minded and since he was too young to work in the mill, he began working as a cook and then began growing potatoes on land that he leased from a Dutch land owner. The local mill at Bridal Falls was facing bankruptcy and Maya Singh arranged to lease the mill, eventually buying it. From there the group moved their business to Strawberry Hill in Surrey and when the sale of logs declined, they moved over to Vancouver Island and established a sawmill with Doman Singh in the community of Paldi (originally known as Mayo Lumber) near Duncan. He explains further how the South Asian community helped each other like they did back home. He clarifies that his father in law’s father is the youngest cousin of Ginaya and Doman Singh and when he died, his father in law’s younger brother started Kashmir Lumber. Eventually his father in law (Lashman Singh Manhas) and the rest of the whole family including cousins and nephews were sponsored by their relations and immigrated to Canada. Nadeem explains how in 1959, his brother in law returned home to Punjab to get married, bringing his family with him. He tells of how during this time period, a marriage was arranged by his parents for him to marry his future wife. Nadeem recollects how this came to be. Nadeem and his wife Surjeet married in Punjab in December 1960, Nadeem was 24 years old and his wife was 18 years old. 24:49 – 39:42 Nadeem describes how he obtained his teaching degree from Ramgarhia College in Phagwara (located in the Kapurhtala district of Punjab) and after a disagreement with a teacher at home, he decided to go to England. He explains how he joined his brother who had moved to England and was working as a labourer. Nadeem tells of the difficulties he faced applying for a teaching job in England and how he had to go back to school to help with his English pronunciation. Nadeem explains that after taking this course, he got work teaching Grade two students which he felt was below his qualifications (he mentions that while living in Punjab, he was a Secondary School teacher) and the pay was very low. He discovered that his brother was making more money working as a labourer so Nadeem became discouraged and quit. When Nadeem couldn’t find work as a labourer, his brother advised him to shave off his beard. Nadeem conveys how difficult it was for him to shave off his beard and how once he was clean shaven he got work as a sweeper in a factory. He shares his experience of working in the factory and of how with his former education he got himself promoted to a more technical position. With encouragement from his employer, Nadeem enrolled in technical courses which lead to him obtaining an HNC Engineering Degree. He completed the course work in two years, obtaining skills in microwave communication becoming the senior test engineer at the factory. While working in this position, Nadeem shares how he suffered discrimination when he was passed over for a senior chief engineer position at the factory by a less educated and experienced employee. 39:43 – 53:38 Nadeem recollects how things changed for him in the 1970s. It began with his father in law (Lashman Singh Manhas) passing away in 1970 while he and his family were living on 18th Street in Burnaby. His father in law had been working at the saw mill, Kashmir Lumber Company in North Vancouver that was owned by his father in law’s younger brother (Kashmir Singh Manhas). The mill had burnt down and many of the workers lost everything. Nadeem confides that during this time, his wife was suffering from depression and wanted to be with her mother back in Canada now that her father had passed away. Nadeem emphasizes how his wife’s family (over 300 relatives) in Canada often get together every year on July 1st in Paldi near Duncan. In 1972, Nadeem arrived in Canada on his own to find work but was unsuccessful so he and his wife made plans to move to Uganda where he was offered a job. In 1973, when his visa didn’t come through for Uganda, Nadeem, his wife and two children decided to come to Canada. Nadeem describes that after several unsuccessful experiences to find skilled work in Canada, he eventually found work at Canadian National Telecommunications. During this time, Nadeem and his family lived with his father in law’s family at 5216 Pandora Street in Burnaby and in 1974, Nadeem purchased a house at 131 Fell Avenue in Burnaby. Nadeem provides further details of when the families lived at these different addresses and how in 1983 he had a house built on Woodsworth Street where he is still living now. He conveys some of the history of the lot where his current house resides including details on the lot subdivision, lot ownership and the cost of building his new house. Nadeem tells of how he designed his home with help from his son who was working as an apprentice with architect Arthur Erikson at the time. He describes the architectural interior as an open concept design, in an “L” shape in honour of his father “Lakhmir Singh”. Nadeem shares information on his mother’s name which was Jamna (prior to her marriage) and became Davinder Kaur after she was married. (Note: Jamna was her name before marriage. Traditionally after a woman is married, her husband’s family changes her first name because she is now considered a part of a new family). 53:39 – 58:56 Nadeem provides information on his career working as CNCP technician working with CPIC systems and how he was promoted to a new position. Nadeem inserts a quote from a Punjabi poem which he translates to English as “Somebody asked the blind people. What do you need? He said, do you need two eyes?, he said, what else do I need?”. Nadeem conveys how in 1986 his mother passed away so he went back home to the village of Lakhpur where his father and younger brother were living. His father and younger brother were on their own and in 1986 they decided to demolish the family home. He explains that there’s a college there now and that a library was built at this location in the name of his grandfather. 58:57 – 1:04:38 Nadeem shares how he suffered a heart attack in 1990 during the marriage ceremony of his son in Williams Lake. Nadeem talks about the complicated relations of the South Asian families and the saw mill owners in Paldi and comments on the problems with the caste system that provokes discrimination within the South Asian community. Nadeem refers to disputes that arose amongst mill owners and investors that included Kapoor Singh Siddoo, Mayo Singh, Gurdial Singh Teja and Ginaya Singh which caused problems amongst his family and also lead to Kapoor Singh selling his portion of the mill. Nadeem spells “Ginaya” Singh’s name and explains that this name is the nickname for “Krishna”. Nadeem provides his insight into the joint ownership of the saw mills located in Paldi and how the the joint ownership was dissolved in 1952. Nadeem clarifies that Ginaya Singh also left Paldi and that Ginaya Singh’s wife is his mother in law’s aunt and that he also moved to Burnaby. Nadeem explains the proper name spelling of mill owner “Mayo Singh” and that the correct spelling is actually “Mayan Singh” but he changed it to “Mayo” when it was mis-pronounced. Nadeem also comments on the problems that he encountered in 1970 on the pronunciation of his own name while living in England and at one point his employer referred to him as “Paul”. 1:04:39 – 1:18:50 Nadeem relays that when he emigrated from India and to Canada that he carried his personal possessions in a small suitcase made from cardboard since the weight limit on the airplane was just three pounds. He conveys that many of his relations have all suffered from heart problems including Ginaya Singh and his children. Nadeem shares that Ginaya Singh’s three sons all lived in Burnaby. Nadeem conveys that many South Asians lived in Burnaby and many worked at saw mills in North Vancouver and in the L&K sawmill near Pemberton. Nadeem explains further about the how the disagreements came to be between Mayo Singh and Kapoor Singh. He describes how each had a different business strategy in harvesting lumber and that there were feuds amongst the families. Nadeem provides further details on the root of the family feuds. Nadeem provides definitions for certain Punjabi terms that he’s using including “Mehta”(meaning lowest class of farmers, foreigner as well head as a title given to people of a clan living in the area) and ‘Panchat”, the name of his family village that was built and founded by five brothers and one nephew (Panj- meaning five and the sound “cht” meaning six). Nadeem explains that these terms were given to people from his own clan living in the area because it was small. Nadeem explains further about status that is based on money and the Punjabi terms “Parsu”, “Parsa” and “Pasaram” that are often used to describe a person. When you are poor the term “Parsu” is used and when you become rich the term “Pasaram” is used. Nadeem refers to Mayo Singh as a Pasaram as the second most successful millner in British Columbia, second to Frederick John Hart. Nadeem mentions that Ginaya Singh, elder brother to Mayo Singh helped provide the finances to start the mill and when there was a disagreement, Ginaya Singh left the mill business, moved his family to Burnaby and began working in insurance. Nadeem shares the sad story of Ginaya Singh’s sudden death (in 1953). Nadeem states that many of the people who left the mills at Paldi went to work at the Kapoor Mill in Burnaby and some relocated to the Interior of British Columbia. Nadeem mentions that his father in law (Lashman Singh Manhas) was able to purchase a house on 18th Street in along with other residences that he bought with his hard earned money working in the farms and mills, 16 hours per day, seven days a week. 1:18:51 – 1:32:04 Nadeem explains why he thinks that most South Asian people worked in the mills in the earlier days. Nadeem conveys that since Sikh men wore beards and turbans they encountered discrimination and were unable to get work in the business community. Nadeem shares his own personal experiences of wearing a turban and the discrimination he’s encountered while living in Scotland and Canada. Nadeem mentions that a defense committee was formed to protect the Gurdwaras and people’s homes from being vandalized due to racial discrimination. Nadeem describes some of the troubles that he’s encountered in his own neighbourhood when he had to call the police. Nadeem shares a personal experience just after 9/11 where he was the target of racial discrimination in the parking lot of Burnaby Lake. Nadeem emphasizes that he has experienced many incidents of racial discrimination, especially in the workplace and that this was not unusual for him. 1:32:05 – 1:36:19 Nadeem talks about his interest in writing and his many literary works including 12 novels that he’s written in Punjabi. Nadeem highlights a few books that he’s written including a book titled “Rape” and another one titled “Sponsorship” which conveys the complex nature of people immigrating to Canada. Nadeem mentions a particular book about AIDS, titled “Wide Net” that he’s been trying to get published. Nadeem speaks to the challenges and high costs of trying to get his works published. Nadeem provides a brief synopsis of his book “Wide Net”. Nadeem relays that this is a personal account of a gay couple that he knew where one of the partners died of AIDS and that the couple gave Nadeem permission to tell their tragic story. 1:36:20 – 1:51:51 Nadeem talks about his children and compares their experiences to his own as a South Asian immigrant. Nadeems talks about the accomplishments of his son, his daughter and grandchildren including their education and careers. Nadeem says that his children are well educated and well established in their careers. Nadeem’s children attended Capitol Hill Elementary School and North Burnaby High School in Burnaby. Nadeem shares specifics of his son’s career history. Nadeem expresses that he still considers Canada to be the best country for opportunities and that he prefers to live in Burnaby rather than Surrey and shares some personal anecdotes. Nadeem lists some local places that he’s shopped for South Asian groceries and spices rather than travelling to Surrey. He mentions shopping at Kelly Douglas, stores in Chinatown, small grocers on Capitol Hill, Patel’s on Commercial Drive and Main Street. As an aside Nadeem mentions that he worked as a security guard and the wages that he earned. Nadeem comments that he has been awarded various certificates and certifications from his education and career over the years, including a Bachelor of Science. The interviewers further express their interest in seeing the cardboard case that Nadeem brought with him when immigrating to Canada. In closing Nadeem states that his favourite food from back home was kheer (rice pudding).

History: Interviewee biography: Kalwant Singh "Nadeem" Parmar was born June 9, 1936, Chuck 138 in Lyalpur (India before 1947) to parents Lakhmir Singh Parmar and Davinder Kaur Jamana Parmar. Nadeem grew up in the village of Panchat in the northern region of Punjab, India. Nadeem married his wife Surjeet in Punjab in 1960. After marrying the couple immigrated to England where Nadeem was already working. While living in England, Nadeem and Surjeet had two children. After Surjeet's father died in Canada in 1972, Nadeem, Surjeet and their two children immgrated to Canada, joining Surjeet's family who were living in Burnaby. After Nadeem immigrated to Burnaby in 1973 he worked various jobs before working with CN/CP Telecommunications. Nadeem holds a Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Teaching from Punjab University and a diploma from the London Board of Education (L.B.E.) and a P.Eng. from Lancaster. He has seven books published in Punjabi, three in Urdu and is published in eight anthologies. He is fluent in Punjabi, Urdu, and Hindi. Interviewers' biographies: Anushay Malik is labor historian with a geographical focus on South Asia. Anushay studied at the University of London and was a research fellow at the International Institute of Social History in Amsterdam, Netherlands. In 2014, Anushay moved back to her native Pakistan and joined Lahore University of Management Services as an Assistant Professor. In 2023, Anushay is a visiting scholar at Simon Fraser University and lives in Burnaby with her family. Anushay was a co-curator of the Burnaby Village Museum exhibit “Truths Not Often Told: Being South Asian in Burnaby”. Rajdeep was born and raised in the Lower Mainland and is of Punjabi (South Asian) descent. She has an Associate of Arts degree in Asian Studies from Kwantlen Polytechnic University, a Bachelor of Arts (Hons.) in Anthropology from the University of British Columbia. She is a student in the Restoration of Natural Systems program at the University of Victoria. Rajdeep works at Simon Fraser University as a Program Assistant and as a researcher with the City of Burnaby. At Burnaby Village Museum, Rajdeep contributed to the exhibit “Truths Not Often Told: Being South Asian in Burnaby”.

Creator: Burnaby Village Museum

Subjects: Buildings - Commercial - Grocery Stores; Buildings - Industrial - Saw Mills; Buildings - Industrial - Factories; Education; Employment; Industries - Logging/lumber; Migration; Occupations - Engineers; Occupations - Millworkers; Occupations - Teachers; Occupations - Writers; Persons - South Asian Canadians; Social Issues; Social Issues - Racism

Names: Parmar, Kalwant Singh "Nadeem"; Kapoor Sawmills Limited; Siddoo, Kapoor Singh; Teja, Gurdial Singh; Parmar, Surjeet Kaur; Manhas, Ghania Singh; Singh, Mayo; Manhas, Kashmir Singh; Manhas, Sher Singh; Manhas, Budhan Kaur; Manhas, Lashman Singh

Responsibility: Malik, Anushay; Rajdeep

Geographic Access: Woodsworth Street

Accession Code: BV022.29.1

Access Restriction: No restrictions

Reproduction Restriction: No known restrictions

Date: [1600-2022] (interview content), interviewed 7 Oct. 2022

Media Type: Sound Recording

Historic Neighbourhood: Capitol Hill (Historic Neighbourhood)

Planning Study Area: Douglas-Gilpin Area; Capitol Hill Area

Related Material: See also BV022.29.5 - Interview with Surjeet Kaur Parmar

Notes: Title based on contents of item; Spelling of "Ginaya Singh" found as "Ghania Singh Manhas" in obituary and death certificate; Interview is conducted in English with various segments of discussion in Punjabi; Transcript of interview available upon request

Audio Tracks

Interview with Kalwant Singh

https://search.heritageburnaby.ca/media/hpo/_Data/_BVM_Sound_Recordings/Oral_Histories/2022_0029_0001_003.mp3

Interview with Maninder Arora

https://search.heritageburnaby.ca/link/museumdescription19351

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Date: [1974-2022] (interview content), interviewed 7 Dec. 2022

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 2 sound recordings (wav) (67 min., 25 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (66 min., 45 sec.)

Scope and Content: Item consists of a recording of an oral history interview with Maninder Arora conducted by Anushay Malik with assistance from Museum Registrar James Binks. 0:00 – 07:33 Interview opens with introductions. Maninder Arora shares her immigration story and how she came to emigrate from India to Canada…

1 document 1 audio

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Series: Museum Oral Histories series

Subseries: South Asian Canadian Interviews subseries

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 2 sound recordings (wav) (67 min., 25 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (66 min., 45 sec.)

Material Details: Interviewers: Anushay Malik Co interviewer: James Binks Interviewee: Maninder Arora Location of Interview: In Burnaby at the home of Maninder Arora Interview Date: December 7, 2022 Total Number of tracks: 2 Total Length of all Tracks: (01:07:25) Digital master recordings (wav) were edited into one recording and converted to mp3 for access on Heritage Burnaby

Scope and Content: Item consists of a recording of an oral history interview with Maninder Arora conducted by Anushay Malik with assistance from Museum Registrar James Binks. 0:00 – 07:33 Interview opens with introductions. Maninder Arora shares her immigration story and how she came to emigrate from India to Canada at 16 years of age with her mother, her older sister (18 yrs) and her younger brother (11 yrs) in 1974. Maninder explains how her sister immigrated first after marrying a South Asian Canadian and subsequently was able to sponsor members of her family to immigrate about one year later. Arora describes what life was like for her and her family in the northern part of Punjab in India prior to immigration to Canada. Arora describes her family composition with her being the second youngest of eight children and how at the time of immigrating, four of her elder siblings (three sisters and one brother) stayed behind. 07:34 – 16:23 As a new immigrant to Canada at the age of 16 years of age, Maninder Arora recalls the many challenges that she faced. Maninder describes how she attended Vancouver Technical School and then worked at a restaurant on Friday nights and weekends. She recollects how she got her first job through the Sikh community from the Akali Singh Sikh Gurdwara on Fraser Street. Maninder recalls that during the first five months in Canada, Maninder, her mother, sister and brother lived with her elder sister, her husband and child before finding a place of their own. Arora recalls where her family shopped for traditional Indian spices and foods. 16:24 – 25:50 Maninder Arora describes the next home that her family moved to and how she and her brother attended David Thompson Secondary School. Maninder explains that she dropped out of school in Grade 12 to go to work full time to help her family repay the debt that they owed for their immigration expenses. Around 1981, her mother was able to purchase a house at Marine Drive and Ross Street and her mother got work at the same restaurant that Maninder was working. Maninder shares and reflects on a disturbing encounter of racism that she and her older sister faced while taking local transit. 25:51 – 34:17 Maninder Arora talks about her past work experience. Maninder describes how with the help of her sister, she began working as a nurses' aide at care homes and private hospitals. Maninder reflects on how she intended to get a job in a unionized care home where she can make a better living wage. Maninder describes some of the places that she worked before obtaining certification as a nurse’s aide from Kwantlen College. 34;18 – 51:15 Maninder Arora describes the events that led to her marrying her future husband in 1986 and how it wasn’t an easy decision for her. Maninder describes where she and her family lived after her marriage and how her hard work led her to obtaining full time employment as a nurses' aide in Richmond. 51:16 - 56:16 Maninder Arora tells of how she decided to move to Burnaby where her sister and extended family were living. Maninder recalls what lead to her decision to move from Surrey to Burnaby in 1992. 56:17 - 1:04:23 Maninder Arora shares some experiences of her life in Burnaby. Maninder further reflects on her decisions for moving to Burnaby including providing what she thought would be a safer environment and education for her children. Maninder conveys how racism is still very much prevalent in society and recounts a personal encounter that she experienced while shopping for shoes at Metrotown. 1:04:24 – 1:06:45 The interviewer asks Maninder Arora what she would like to see conveyed as a message for younger people in an upcoming exhibit at Burnaby Village Museum on South Asian history. Maninder conveys that she would like all Canadian citizens living in Burnaby to make the environment better by not littering, living peacefully together and not causing people grief or struggle for nothing, “Be kind to each other”. In closing Arora shares the transportation route she took when emigrating from India to Canada.

History: Interviewee biography: Maninder Arora was born in the northern part of Punjab, India. Her sister immigrated to Canada in 1974 after marrying a South Asian Canadian. In 1975, after her father died, her sister was able to bring her mother, her 11 year old brother and Maninder at 16 years of age. After arriving in British Columbia, they first lived with her sister and family before finding a place of their own. Maninder attended Vancouver Technical School and later David Thompson Secondary School and worked in a restaurant on weekends to help her family out. Maninder and her family were members of the Sikh community and attended Akali Singh Sikh Gurdwara on Fraser Street. Maninder left school in Grade 12 to work full time to help her family repay the debt that they owed for their immigration expenses. In the early 1980’s Maninder’s family moved to a house near Marine Drive and Ross Street that her mother was able to purchase. With the help of her sister, Maninder got work as a nurses’ aide at care homes and private hospitals which eventually led her to obtaining certification from Kwantlen College. Maninder married in 1986 and had two children while living in Richmond. Around 1992, she moved from Surrey to Burnaby to be closer to her sister and to provide as safer environment for her children. Interviewers' biographies: Anushay Malik is labor historian with a geographical focus on South Asia. Anushay studied at the University of London and was a research fellow at the International Institute of Social History in Amsterdam, Netherlands. In 2014, Anushay moved back to her native Pakistan and joined Lahore University of Management Services as an Assistant Professor. In 2023, Anushay is a visiting scholar at Simon Fraser University and lives in Burnaby with her family. Anushay was a co-curator of the Burnaby Village Museum exhibit “Truths Not Often Told: Being South Asian in Burnaby”. James Binks has lived in the Lower Mainland since 2009 after relocating from Ontario. James holds a Bachelor of Arts in Anthropology from the University of British Columbia, where he conducted researched on heritage, environment, and globalization in India, Nepal, and Italy. At Burnaby Village Museum, James contributed to the exhibit “Truths Not Often Told: Being South Asian in Burnaby”.

Creator: Burnaby Village Museum

Subjects: Persons - South Asian Canadians; Social Issues; Social Issues - Racism; Occupations; Occupations - Nurses; Migration

Names: Arora, Maninder

Responsibility: Malik, Anushay; Binks, James

Accession Code: BV022.29.6

Access Restriction: No restrictions

Reproduction Restriction: No known restrictions

Date: [1974-2022] (interview content), interviewed 7 Dec. 2022

Media Type: Sound Recording

Notes: Title based on contents of item; Transcription available on Heritage Burnaby

Documents

2022_0029_0006_004

Audio Tracks

Interview with Maninder Arora, [1974-2022] (interview content), interviewed 7 Dec. 2022

https://search.heritageburnaby.ca/media/hpo/_Data/_BVM_Sound_Recordings/Oral_Histories/2022_0029_0006_003.mp3

Interview with Prem Kaur Gill, Santokh Singh Gill and Mohinder Kaur Gill

https://search.heritageburnaby.ca/link/museumdescription19347

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Date: [1957-2022] (interview content), interviewed 11 Nov. 2022

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 1 sound recording (m4a) (118 min., 39 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (115 min., 20 sec.)

Scope and Content: Item consists of an oral history interview with Santokh "Gurmail" Singh Gill and Mohinder Kaur Gill and their daughter, Prem Kaur Gill conducted by interviewers, Anushay Malik and Rajdeep. The interview is conducted in English, Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu. The three members of the Gill family share the…

1 audio

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Series: Museum Oral Histories series

Subseries: South Asian Canadian Interviews subseries

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 1 sound recording (m4a) (118 min., 39 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (115 min., 20 sec.)

Material Details: Interviewers: Anushay Malik, Rajdeep Interviewees: Prem Kaur Gill, Santokh "Gurmail" Singh Gill and Mohinder Kaur Gill Location of Interview: Gill family residence on Warwick Avenue in Burnaby Interview Date: November 11, 2022 Total Number of tracks: 1 Total Length of all Tracks: (1:58:39) Digital master recording (m4a) was converted to mp3 for access on Heritage Burnaby

Scope and Content: Item consists of an oral history interview with Santokh "Gurmail" Singh Gill and Mohinder Kaur Gill and their daughter, Prem Kaur Gill conducted by interviewers, Anushay Malik and Rajdeep. The interview is conducted in English, Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu. The three members of the Gill family share their ancestral background, their personal experiences immigrating to Canada, living in Burnaby and working in British Columbia as South Asian immigrants. 00:00 – 27:34 Santokh “Gurmail” Singh Gill and Mohinder Kaur Gill share their migration stories and experiences living and working in British Columbia as South Asian immigrants and their eldest child, Prem Kaur Gill shares her own experiences as a child of South Asian immigrants and growing up in British Columbia as a South Asian Canadian. Gurmail Singh Gill was born in the District of Jalandhar and Mohinder Kaur Gill was born in Hoshiapur of the Indian state of Punjab. Gurmail describes how he moved from India to England with his family in 1957, immigrated to Canada from England in 1966, married his wife Mohinder in England in 1968 and brought his family (parents and two siblings) to Canada from England in 1970 and other relatives including his wife’s family in the 1970s and 1980s. Mohinder and Gurmail Gill recollect their arranged marriage in England in 1968, their immigration process and explain how they arrived in Burnaby residing with a cousin at 4649 Georgia Street until they were able to purchase their own home after a few years. Gurmail shares names and connections to the relatives that came to British Columbia before him. Gurmail and Mohinder tell how they lived in the basement of the house and rented out the upper floor to save money. The couple recall what they brought with them when they immigrated to Canada and Mohinder Kaur Gill tells of how before leaving India, she and her mother made a special rajai for her to take with her. Mohinder describes the process of making a rajai (a quilted blanket that was made by hand). Gurmail and Mohinder Gill talk about the challenges that they’ve experienced as new immigrants including not being fluent in English, the cold weather and not having very many family or friends nearby to provide support. They attended the Gurdwara on Ross Street or Akali Singh Sikh Society Gurdwara on Skeena in Vancouver. They explain how there was limited access to grocery stores that supplied Punjabi and Indian spices and other cooking supplies. They talk about how they used a food mill and mortar and pestle to grind their own spices and flour and how Mohinder often made traditional sweets like barfi and laddo and pakoras using pea flour when they couldn’t get Besan flour. 27:35 – 36:11 Gurmail provides more details on his family’s immigration story, including names of relatives, how his six siblings and parents all immigrated to British Columbia in 1970 and how in the early 1970s and mid 1980’s Gurmail and his family sponsored approximately 70 friends and relations from India (including Mohinder’s family) to immigrate to Canada. When Mohinder’s family arrived they lived with them in their house until they were able to purchase property next door and build their own home. Children in the families all attended elementary and high school in Burnaby which now amounts to three generations. 36:12 – 59:28 Gurmail and Mohinder Gill talk about their experiences of racial discrimination. Gurmail recalls members of the South Asian community, Dr. Hari Prakash Sharma, Harinder Mahil and Charan Gill starting the British Columbia Organization to Fight Racism. Gurmail tells of how he got involved contributing some of his union dues as a member of CAIMAW (Canadian Association of Industrial Mechanical and Allied Workers Union- Local 15) and as a friend of Charan Gill and Raj Chouhan of the Canadian Farm Workers Union. Gurmail Gill explains how he was a founding member of CAIMAW and treasurer until the union merged with the Canadian Auto Workers Union (in 1991). Mohinder and Gurmail tell of how people from the South Asian community were discouraged from wearing Punjabi dresses or head coverings for fear of being yelled at with racial slurs and how it was often scary to go outside. Many from their community often avoided attending the Akali Singh Gurdwara since a head covering was required and people were afraid of being a target. Gurmail provides details about his work with A1 Steel, how different unions were formed pertaining to various skillsets and jobs per company and how he became a member of CAIMAW Local 15 (foundry workers). Mohinder recollects her experiences as a mother, the daily tasks involved and friends that she made who’d also emigrated from Punjab. Mohinder describes how she designed and sewed many Punjabi dresses using her electric sewing machine and how she learned English by attending adult classes at a church on Commercial Drive. Mohinder and her mother attended the classes for two hours per day for six years at a cost of twelve dollars for ten weeks. Once Mohinder could speak a little English, she started working and was able to practice more. 59:29 – 1:06:08 Mohinder, Gurmail and Prem talk about some of their favourite traditional foods including corn roti and spinach curry and how they grow many of their own vegetables including peppers, eggplant, saag (spinach), onions, garlic, cilantro, zucchini, squash and fenugreek. Mohinder reflects on how access to Punjabi clothing and fabric stores in Vancouver has changed and that ready made food is now more available. Traditional foods were previously made from scratch with women gathering together and cooking for hours and now it’s gotten easier but more expensive and less of a community feel. 1:06:09- 1:55:20 Mohinder and Gurmail Gill discuss and share their perspectives and experiences on raising a family in the past versus today. Gurmail imparts that all of his siblings became educated and secured professional careers while he continued to work in the trades. Prem Kaur Gill shares her own experiences growing up and attending school in Burnaby. Gurmail and Mohinder Gill recall the type of suitcase that they brought with them when they immigrated and how they recently they got rid of it. Gurmail and the group reflect and discuss the confusion with racial identity terms that have been used in this country. They comment that South Asians were referred to as “Hindu” and “East Indian” and Indigenous peoples were referred to as “Indian” and the controversy and racism behind some of these terms. The group discusses the impact of the caste system and other discriminatory experiences and compare their experiences of living in England to living in Canada. Prem comments on how it’s just recently that South Asian customs, celebrations and practices have been recognized and celebrated here in Canada, like Diwali and yoga. They comment on how much of the language, culture and customs have been retained in Surrey where many can still communicate in Punjabi and don’t need to be fluent in English. The group discusses how many South Asians immigrants first lived and worked in Vancouver but with rising property prices many moved to Surrey expanding and establishing a much larger South Asian community with resources. The group discusses and compares the differing travel routes that many of them and their relatives took when immigrating and travelling between India and Canada. The group talks about Rajdeep’s ancestral village in India which is near the Gill village of Firozpur. Gurmail explains the origins and details behind his family name that was changed from “Shergill” to “Gill” and the name “Santokh” from his maternal side.

History: Interviewees' biographies: Santokh "Gurmail" Singh Gill was born in the District of Jalandhar in Punjab, India. Gurmail moved to England with his family in 1957 and immigrated to British Columbia in 1966. Gurmail married his wife, Mohinder Kaur Gill in England in 1968 and she immigrated to British Columbia from England soon after. Gurmail first lived with a cousin in Burnaby before purchasing a home of his own in Burnaby where he raised his family. Gurmail worked in the steel industry and was a member and treasurer of the CAIMAW before the union merged with the Canadian Auto Workers Union. Mohinder Kaur Gill was born in the Hoshiapur in Punjab, India. She married her husband Santokh "Gurmail" Singh Gill in England in 1968 and immigrated to Burnaby, British Columbia to join her husband. Mohinder and Gurmail Gill have four children, all born in Burnaby. Prem Kaur Gill was born in Burnaby in 1969 and is the eldest child of Santokh "Gurmail" Singh Gill and Mohinder Kaur Gill. Prem grew up and attended school in Burnaby. Interviewers' biographies: Anushay Malik is labor historian with a geographical focus on South Asia. Anushay studied at the University of London and was a research fellow at the International Institute of Social History in Amsterdam, Netherlands. In 2014, Anushay moved back to her native Pakistan and joined Lahore University of Management Services as an Assistant Professor. In 2023, Anushay is a visiting scholar at Simon Fraser University and lives in Burnaby with her family. Anushay was a co-curator of the Burnaby Village Museum exhibit “Truths Not Often Told: Being South Asian in Burnaby”. Rajdeep was born and raised in the Lower Mainland and is of Punjabi (South Asian) descent. She has an Associate of Arts degree in Asian Studies from Kwantlen Polytechnic University, a Bachelor of Arts (Hons.) in Anthropology from the University of British Columbia. She is a student in the Restoration of Natural Systems program at the University of Victoria. Rajdeep works at Simon Fraser University as a Program Assistant and as a researcher with the City of Burnaby. At Burnaby Village Museum, Rajdeep contributed to the exhibit “Truths Not Often Told: Being South Asian in Burnaby”.

Creator: Burnaby Village Museum

Subjects: Clothing; Foods; Indigenous peoples; Buildings - Religious - Temples; Food Processing Tools and Equipment; Persons - South Asian Canadians; Social Issues; Social Issues - Racism; Migration; Occupations; Organizations - Unions

Names: Gill, Prem Kaur; Gill, Mohinder Kaur; Gill, Santokh "Gurmail" Singh

Responsibility: Rajdeep; Malik, Anushay

Accession Code: BV022.29.2

Access Restriction: No restrictions

Reproduction Restriction: No known restrictions

Date: [1957-2022] (interview content), interviewed 11 Nov. 2022

Media Type: Sound Recording

Notes: Title based on contents of item; Transcript available upon request - contact Burnaby Village Museum; Indian Family System Reference notes: Baba = informal way to say grandfather; old man Bibi = informal way to say grandmother; old woman Dada= paternal grandfather Dadi= paternal grandmother Dadke= paternal family members; paternal side (Various spellings might exist for the following terms) Thaiyya= father’s elder brother (uncle) Thaiyyi= father’s elder brother’s wife (aunt) Chacha= father’s younger brother (uncle) Chachi= father’s younger brother’s wife (aunt) Bua= father’s sister (older or younger) (aunt) Phuphar= father’s sister’s husband (uncle) Nana= maternal grandfather Nani= maternal grandmother Nanke/nanka= maternal family members; maternal side Mama= mom’s brother (older or younger) (uncle) Mami= mom’s brother’s wife (aunt) Maasi= mom’s sister (older or younger) (aunt) Maasard= mom’s sister’s husband (uncle)

Audio Tracks

Interview with Prem Kaur Gill, Santokh Singh Gill and Mohinder Kaur Gill, [1957-2022] (interview content), interviewed 11 Nov. 2022

https://search.heritageburnaby.ca/media/hpo/_Data/_BVM_Sound_Recordings/Oral_Histories/2022_0029_0002_002.mp3

Interview with Shushma Datt and Sudhir Datta

https://search.heritageburnaby.ca/link/museumdescription19611

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Date: [1946- 2023] (interview content), interviewed 20 Jan. 2023

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 2 sound recordings (wav) (90 min., 21 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (90 min., 4 sec.)

Scope and Content: Item consists of a recording of an oral history interview with Shushma Datt and her son, Sudhir Datta conducted by Burnaby Village Museum Curator, Jane Lemke and Anushay Malik. 00:00 – 12:47 Interview opens with introductions. Shushma Datt shares information about; where she’s lived in Burnaby sin…

1 audio

Repository: Burnaby Village Museum

Collection/Fonds: Burnaby Village Museum fonds

Series: Museum Oral Histories series

Subseries: South Asian Canadian Interviews subseries

Description Level: Item

Physical Description: 2 sound recordings (wav) (90 min., 21 sec.) + 1 sound recording (mp3) (90 min., 4 sec.)

Material Details: Interviewers: Jane Lemke and Anushay Malik Interviewees: Shushma Datt and Sudhir Datta Location of Interview: Spice Radio, Norland Avenue, Burnaby Interview Date: January 20, 2023 Total Number of tracks: 2 Total Length of all Tracks: 01:30:21 Digital master recordings (wav) were edited into one recording and converted to mp3 for access on Heritage Burnaby

Scope and Content: Item consists of a recording of an oral history interview with Shushma Datt and her son, Sudhir Datta conducted by Burnaby Village Museum Curator, Jane Lemke and Anushay Malik. 00:00 – 12:47 Interview opens with introductions. Shushma Datt shares information about; where she’s lived in Burnaby since immigrating in 1972 and her arranged marriage which lead her to immigrate to Canada. Datt provides detailed information about her family background in Kenya and her parent’s decision to move their family from Kenya to India in the 1960s and then to England in the 1965. Datt describes her family’s experiences living in Kenya and India in the 1960s and provides some context on the political unrest that happened in Kenya which lead her family to leave. 12:48 - 28:07 Datt talks about her time living in England and shares information on her family life and her employment experiences. Datt conveys an experience from her childhood that inspired her to become a broadcaster and shares her experiences working for the BBC oversees service in England (1965-1972). Datt describes some of the articles that she's written for various publications and the people that she's interviewed. Datt highlights a particular experience about writing a critical review about the controversial design on Jimi Hendrix’s album “Axis: Bold as Love” that depicted Hindu religious iconography. 28:09 – 34:47 Datt and Datta provide further details about Datt's arranged marriage which lead her to immigrate to Canada in 1972 and to work as a broadcaster in Canada. Datt recalls her experiences working as a radio station operator for CHQM, a radio broadcaster for CJVB and starting her own South Asian radio station Rim Jhim in 1987. 34:48 – 40:01 Datt and Datta share information on where they’ve lived in Vancouver and Burnaby. Datt and Datta recall pivotal family life events that impacted their lives in 1974. 40:02 – 45:53 Datt recalls the travel trunks and contents that she and her family brought with them when they left Nairobi. Datt describes the letters that her parents wrote. Datt and Datta describe photos of their family and convey the impacts to their family after two of Datt’s brothers died at 24 years of age. 45:54 – 50:56 Interview continues chronologically from 1974, after Datt’s son, Sudhir Datta was born. Datt describes how she had to work hard to help pay her bills and support her family. Datta describes his childhood growing up as a South Asian child living and attending school in Burnaby (1979-1992). Datt and Datta recall Datt’s graduation ceremony and Datta’s Order of British Columbia awards ceremony. 50:57 – 58:03 Datt and Datta talk about food and cooking and where they’ve shopped for traditional food supplies. Datta explains her family lineage as Hindus who eat meat and how she’s been a vegetarian for over 30 years. Datt and Datta share stories about Datt’s mother Leela Datta. 58:04 – 1:05:38 Both Datt and Datta reflect on what’s it’s been like living as South Asians in Burnaby. Datt conveys the message that she got from her mom, Leela Datta "not to assimilate but to integrate". They both reflect on how the ethnic and cultural diversity of neighbourhoods has changed over time and Datt describes his experiences as a student in Burnaby. 1:05:39 – 1:16:51 Datt and Datta talk about the role of religion in their lives, describe the purpose of Radio Rim Jhim and reflect on how the South Asian community has grown in Metro Vancouver and the disparities created within. They both recall how their lives were threatened and impacted in 1984 following an interview that Datt did with Indira Ghandhi. Datt talks about the origins of her and her son’s surnames. 1:16:52 – 1:26:11 Datt and Datta talk about and reflect on their own experiences of racism and discrimination. Datt talks about Spice Radio’s annual campaign “Raise your hands against Racism”. Datt and Datta provide background on the radio stations Rim Jhim and Spice Radio including; how they got started, their unbiased approach to broadcast content and their experiences in the complex realm of broadcasting a multi-cultural radio station. 1:26:12 – 1:30:04 In closing, Datt and Datta convey what they think that younger generations of South Asian Canadians should understand about the South Asian Community in British Columbia.

History: Interviewees biographies: Shushma Datt was born in Nairobi, Kenya in 1946 and is the second eldest of six children. In the 1960s during the unrest in Kenya, her family moved to India. After about nine months of living in India, Datt's family decided to return to Kenya, leaving Datt and her brother to complete their education in India. While living in India, Datt studied at Delhi University and worked at the Indian newspaper. In 1965, Datt, her parents and five siblings decided to leave Kenya and immigrated to England. While living in England, Datt got work as a broadcaster with the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) overseas service, producing her first program in 1969. During her time with the BBC, Datt has interviewed many influential artists including Jimi Hendrix and the Beatles as well as the Prime Minister of India, Indira Gandhi. In 1972, Datt immigrated to Canada and settled in Burnaby. In late 1973, Datt sponsored her mother who joined her in Burnaby. Datt joined the CJVB radio station in Vancouver working as the Punjabi and Hindi language broadcaster. Datt worked here until 1978 when she started her own radio station, Radio Rim Jhim. In 2005, Datt obtained her own AM radio band license for a multicultural radio station RJ1200 which was later rebranded "Spice Radio". In 2015, Datt launched Spice Radio's annual "Hands Against Racism" campaign which has won awards from the Government of British Columbia and the B.C. Association of Broadcasters. Datt has also been a producer for Omni TV and Shaw TV and was the first woman to obtain a broadcasting license from the Canadian Radio- Television Telecommunications Commission. In 1992, Shushma Datt was awarded the Order of British Columbia and is also the recipient of the Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal. Datt has been listed by the Vancouver Sun newspaper as among the 100 "most influential Indo-Canadians" and has been recognized by the Royal British Columbia Museum as one of the 150 "most influential British Columbians". Sudhir Datta is the only child of Sushma Datt and was born in Burnaby. Datta graduated with a computer science degree from Capilano University in 1995. Datta is the Vice President of Media Broadcasting (founded in 1984) creating television and radio programming for Canada's South Asian Community and has been the General Manager and Program Director of Spice Radio since 2006. Datta is also the author of many articles highlighting the South Asian community in Vancouver. Interviewers biographies: Anushay Malik is labor historian with a geographical focus on South Asia. Anushay studied at the University of London and was a research fellow at the International Institute of Social History in Amsterdam, Netherlands. In 2014, Anushay moved back to her native Pakistan and joined Lahore University of Management Services as an Assistant Professor. In 2023, Anushay is a visiting scholar at Simon Fraser University and lives in Burnaby with her family. Anushay was a co-curator of the Burnaby Village Museum exhibit “Truths Not Often Told: Being South Asian in Burnaby”. Jane Lemke has worked in various museums in the Lower Mainland and has been the Curator at Burnaby Village Museum since 2019. Her educational background includes a Master of Arts degree in History and a Master of Museum Studies degree. Her research focus has been on trauma and memory and its role in shaping Canadian identity. She loves sharing memories and stories of Burnaby with the public. Jane sits on the Council of the BC Museums Association and is the Chair of the BC Museums Association Professional Development and Education Committee.